As a teen and a twentysomething (when I used to read such things), the music sections in ladymags made me want to petrol bomb the offices of Bonksmopolitan. Three album reviews, one bland, patronising sentence each. You would be forgiven for thinking that women don't give a toss about the music they listen to. I know that's not true, and so do you.
I thought to myself - surely all we need is a ladymag journo who knows their onions and can write about music in an engaging way. Then isn't it possible that music might eventually become as valid a part of women's style magazines as books, food or travel? It's madness - music and style are more historically linked than any of those other towards-the-back-pages sections. Yet it always get shoved in a little box in the corner and forgotten about.
I can't bear to think that the generalisation is really true - that men want to go out and learn about music, but women find out about bands by passive osmosis.
Specialist music magazines have never really been lady territory - I can't remember ever seeing a woman of 18+ picking one up in the shops (the only exception being metal fans). Is this because most music magazines are written with a teenage or male reader in mind? Or are girls simply not interested in finding out about music that way in the first place? Chicken? Egg?
The world of music blogs has the potential to create a more gender neutral readership... clicking through Popjustice or Pitchfork is infinitely less stodgy and dull than reading Mojo. And there seem to be plenty of women music writers around - more than ever, I'd say. But as for readers? I'm not sure. I can count on one hand the number of female friends I have who have even the vaguest interest in music blogs. Is it all a bit too
geeky for us, girls? Would we rather wait for music to come to us
rather than going out and actively tracking it down? Do we just have better things to do?
Tell me ladies, how do you find your music?
Tell me ladies, how do you find your music?
I think I'm passive. I find most stuff through radio or tv/film soundtracks. I'm also way more into old music than new music, although there has actually been a lot of stuff come out this year that I've loved which is really unusual.
ReplyDeleteIt is a ruddy good time for new music at the moment! The only bonus of being in a difficult political/economic climate :)
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I love music blogs and can rarely comment on posts on Florence Finds due to the scheduling but loved your post (and felt sad I had to read it to hear the new Little Mix song - being the first to find a song that would be a guilty pleasure for most of my friends was way up there for me) I also tend to follow bands I like on Facebook and so on so get a lot directly from there, and I read blogs like Last Years Girl and engage with other music media, and listen to Amazing Radio and Six Music and check out the Youtube black hole from listening to one new artist and seeing what else is out there. I am still a seeker and I love being one. I do it less due to work pressure, but I still make time for it. I also love thisismyjam for this kind of thing.
ReplyDeleteSo I was out there, I just did not know what else to say other than, yes I like that one and no I don't see the point in that band and why the heck did you not include Wings it is an amazing song and miles better than Mischa B's song (dissapointingly)
Oh and I commented on a blog during work hours (which I gave up doing) just to let you know all that. :)
ReplyDeleteSiobhan, it is heartening to find a girl who's as interested in new music as I am! The lack of comments on FF doesn't really bother me (I appreciate that there's often not much to be added) it's more the way the music posts there seem to fit a little uncomfortably with the rest of the women's style stuff - and that reflects (or grows from) the way music is covered in a lot of women's print magazines too. There were a few commenters in the Florence Feedback post saying the music posts did't interest them because music is too personal... which made me think, well, isn't how you dress pretty personal too? And start to wonder what makes fashion blogs so appealing to girls, and music blogs less so. I'm rambling now.
DeleteSo pleased you rate Wings! Isn't it ace! And also appreciate the work-hour comment. Need to add you on TIMJ!
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I've always seen music and clothes/personal style as completely connected so don't get the separation of the two and am not sure I ever will. I once stopped thinking my hairdresser was cool, when she said she liked all kinds of music and then explained that meant she liked garage AND r'n'b (nothing wrong with those two genres but there is SO MUCH MORE out there and so many ace tunes if you are willing to look. I think some songs unite most people too, like when the dancefloor went crazy at our wedding for Crazy in Love, I Think We're Alone Now, London Calling and um 500 Miles...
DeleteI'm not really very into music, so in that sense I suppose I am the female stereotype, but then I am definitely a massive geek about a number of things (books, science, Lord of the Rings... the list is extensive...) so I'm not sure it's being less of a geek that's done it! I do enjoy music, I think it's just that I love a lot of other things more, so I rarely make time for it. I don't really go looking for new music, sometimes it just finds me by osmosis. I'm not sure if that's the norm, though, in fact amongst my friends I'm the exception to the rule, I'd day I appear to be less interested in music than all the women I know.
ReplyDeleteThe thing about women's magazines is that they prescribe to a short set list of things that women like, for example they assume we want to go to festivals but they never really discuss the music that we'd presumably be going there to hear? I don't know. It's a very narrow field of journalism and often does a huge disservice to all women who have a wider range of interests than personal style and sex (not that those are negative interests in themselves).
K x
Jeez, I'd never even thought of the festival/music contradiction! That's just blown my mind a bit. I suspect you're right - that it's a very good example of how women's magazine culture dictates a narrow field of women's interests. I wonder if we let that affect our thinking more than we'd like to admit... (I always feel like a crap girl because I'm not that interested in recipes or baking).
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I read your Florence Finds column religiously and I've discovered some brilliant new music from it. Sometimes I comment but all I usually have to say is "you're awesome, they are ace, thanks!" which gets a bit embarrassing after a while, lol! ;)
ReplyDeleteI love music but I always find the writing to be pretty boring. I tried NME and stuff when I was younger but they just so DULL. I occasionally read articles from the Guardian music section now and I think part of my problem is that a typical article will be on a particular person but contain so many references to other obscure artists/songs/albums that my eyes cross and my brain switches off completely. JUST TELL ME ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE REVIEWING WITHOUT REFERENCING THIS TRAMP YOU SAW PLAYING AN IMPROMPTUE GIG IN THE PARIS LEFT BANK IN AUGUST 1968 OK?? Phew. Sorry, but stuff like that makes me feel stupid and I hate to feel stupid! It's like, does everyone else get all the references? Is it just me?
I used to find new stuff from the radio but hat stopped when I stopped listening to Radio One. I didn't really bother with anything new until this year thanks to a combination of twitter, Florence Finds, Leeds Playlist, and also Spotify letting me listen without buying first! Oh, and I've started using Shazam for those times I'm in a shop or something and really like what's on. I've had the app for years but only just realised how brilliant it is!
See Linds you're EXACTLY the kind of person I imagine writing for when I do the posts... someone who thinks "normal" music journalism is a bit cliquey and dry as a bone, but still loves music and likes finding new stuff.
DeleteI know exactly what you mean about Guardian music, etc... I think I know quite a lot about popular music, but I still find some comments elitist. I think it's just part of that type of writing, that you need to earn your place in those ranks by being able to reference some obscure Belgian skiffle band. It's an insecurity/geekiness a lot of music writers seem to have, and it's stupid. Writing about music is about communication, and that's really not working if you're only communicating effectively to two other people on the planet (who happen to own that 7" by that obscure Belgian skiffle band).
Thanks so much for your comment! I could talk about this all day, your responses have been so interesting!
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A great point, Penny. I don't tend to search out new music very often - I'm a radio girl or I just listen to whatever's on my husbands ipod. I never read the music section in the paper, but then again I hardly ever read the other reviews as I prefer to get personal reviews.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoy your music reviews on FF, but I can't say that I've bought anything. If anyone were to ask me where they could see some good up-to-the-minute music reviews, your column would be top of my list. Keep writing!
Thanks for your comment Esme - just knowing they're being read is enough for me! I think even if I keep going for ten years and one person falls in love with one record in that whole time, then that's job done. I guess what I'm trying to do is bridge the gap between the personal review (which I prefer getting, too) and the reviews online and in the press. I'm not claiming to be a pioneer or anything (there's many more like me who do it far better) but I really think if there was more of that about, then it would redress the balance slightly.
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I just don't really read about or hunt out new music. If people recommend stuff to me I'll listen robot but I very very rarely buy music
ReplyDeleteI'm really lazy when it comes to music, even with bands I enjoy I'm usually the last to find out about their new songs. Big sis and baby niece keep me educated with new stuff but other than that I fall foul of listening to the same old thing, I couldn't even tell you the last time my iPod was updated! Occasionally I get all enthusiastic and attempt to tame my, mostly unorganised, music collection but I usually get bored within 5 minutes.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy music, it's just a bit of a background activity for me I guess. I do enjoy your posts though :)
Hmmm, I think maybe both genders tend to shuffle music down their priority list as they grow out of teenage years... I can think of plenty of guys who'd say the same thing as you too! Also, we get (happily) stuck with the stuff we like, too, so our CD collection stalls at a certain era.
DeleteI'm now wondering whether the fashion industry's need to keep turning over means that a premium is put on buying new items... and music doesn't work like that at all.... it might explain why women tend to get caught up in "keeping up with the Joneses" in terms of style trends, but still put on the same trusted favourite CDs!
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My phone just spasmed so double comment sorry... I think Katie's point resonates with me. Magazines focus so much on the look; fashion, album cover etc that even when they interview artists it's not much about the music which is stupid
ReplyDeleteI can stand it when they ask musicians/politicians/authors about what's in their bloody make up bag instead
Of interesting questions about their talent/specialist subject it's so patronising to them and the reader
I guess I'm just not One of those people that knows all the band members names and the producers and all the albums, I just like the songs I like. Maybe that makes me a bit of a music ignoramus. Sorry Penny.
I love your playlist posts though, that's because when someone writes about something they're passionate about- whatever it is- its interesting to me.
Additionally, I never know what to comment on your FF posts- I read them but I always feel really inadequate on the subject to comment
I completely agree about style magazine interviews.... those intros where "she slips in with not a scrap of makeup on, in her navy blue loafers and a slim belt circling her wisp of a waist...." oh fuck OFF! And yeah, that will be some politician or important charity figurehead or something - somebody who's appearance has nothing to do with anything. It makes me sick. Who are these women who really want to know that stuff? Do they actually exist?
DeleteMusic is just the tip of the iceberg with women's magazines, perhaps... (and isn't it nice that this is what makes Florence Finds different! Good old Rebecca)
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*cant stand...
DeleteI was really into music until my mid to late 20s and i feel like I've lost touch over the past couple of years but I'm not entirely sure why. I have less time now and tend not to have my headphones surgically attached to my ears like I used to! I also feel at a bit of a loss about where to find new music, music blog post penny?? But I have to admit I often revert back to the albums I know all the words to so I can sing along!
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's not having the time to listen to music any more? I definitely noticed my interest creeping up as I've had to drive more for work.
DeleteI also think it's hard to get one-stop shops for music online... I tend to trawl everywhere and there's a lot of terrible stuff that's just been hyped by trendy bastards, or avant garde stuff that's just difficult listening and very much down to personal taste. Music blog post definitely on the cards, thanks Linsey!
I'm thinking I should actually start my own music blog now...
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Er Penny you really should start a music blog! As long as you don't give up this one.
DeleteAs you know P, through MANY conversations, I am NOT a passive pursuant of music. It is SO annoying me when Mr C-S assumes he knows more than me/thinks I wouldn't have heard of something/doesn't ask me what I want to listen to on a Saturday morning. In general though, I think the indie music scene in particular (and anything that's not top 40 in general) is something that's seen by the masses as for boys only, or for girls who dress a certain 'indie' way and have something to prove. This is a massive generalisation, obvs, because liking music is like liking books or films. I also remember a big hoo-ha being made of the fact that NME appointed a female editor in 2009. It's not sooo long since then but when I went on the website to remind myself of her name found that the editor is now a man.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has not quite conveyed my point, which is probably due to Siobhan-esque work computer sneaking issues combined with extreme tiredness.
For the record P too, comments on FF don't necessarily reflect page views and as you know getting to read your music column in advance is one of the greatest joys of my life. And no I am not exaggerating. xx
oh crumbs reading over that it is worse than I feared. The 2009 editor of NME didn't, I don't think, have a sex change (although maybe she felt the need to conform, who knows?) but rather was succeeded by a man, and I shouldn't have used in general twice in the same sentence, but YES I have heard of Pop Will Eat Itself actually Mr C-S thanks for asking and next time you can ruddy well invite me along to the gig too.
DeleteI kind of prefer the sex change story, to be honest. I am fortunate enough to wear the musical trousers (musical trousers - imagine!) in my marriage. I would have beaten Mr C-S over the head with a nineties indiestick if I'd heard him make that detestable assumption. Maybe it was as much to do with his ancient age as the fact that you are a girl...
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well at the moment we're battling over who found Other Lives first. It was me, aggggeeeessss ago. And I am going to sew you some musical trousers...
Delete... and I've found one of the main reasons I'm not so up to date with music. My hubby loves big hair 80s classic rock and likes to blast it out around the house. time to reclaim rights over the stereo I think!!
DeleteI feel like I am so late to this party. I love music, I feel like songs are literally a soundtrack to my life, constantly being transported back to the first time I heard a song or the person / event / weekend it reminds me of. I couldn't be happier coming home from a crap day at work and putting on my current favourite album and chilling. The boy doesn't get this and comes home and puts the tv on. And don't even get me started on his music tastes, he listens to DJ Mixes (radio station) in the bath to chill out.
ReplyDeleteI have never really read music columns or magazines and I find my musical preferences still influenced by what my parents used to listen to (I still whoop with delight when the robinsons squash advert comes on with We Love to Boogie playing as it reminds me of my dad getting ready for work in the mornings, we used to eat breakfast and get ready for work / school listening to T-Rex, Bowie, Fleetwood Mac!). As for how I discover new music, lately I've been downloading the free song of the week from iTunes (usually pretty main stream i know but I heard Ben Howard for the first time through this months ago and I really like him) and also buying random albums that are priced really cheap in Fopp just because. Maybe not the most scientific but then I also love your FF posts for more informed guidance :). Penny I would love it if you set up a music blog.
Also the older I get the more I want to go to smaller local gigs and with King Tuts on my doorstep in Glasgow, which I have still never been to, I recently told the boy we needed to scope out some upcoming gigs and head along (before we actually get too old!) xx
Ps musical trousers sound immense!
I love the T Rex breakfast memory! You live in such an amazing city for music, some great record shops too if i remember - is Mono still going? I bought Jamie Liddel's Multiply on double 12" there when it came out. You should definitely check out the local music scene, drag the boy along! Sam is always a reluctant accomplice to gigs, generally he gets into it eventually...
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Seconded. My Glasgwegian husband would love to move back home one day and his major motivation is not being close to his mum, but the live music scene in Glasgow. x
DeleteI've never heard of Mono, will check it out. When I was wee I used to love going to Tower Records which was like 5 floors of music discovery. Penny I think you need to recommend me some peeps who are playing in Glasgow soon please :) xx
DeletePs did you see my news of the day...Uranus has a moon named after me! A MOON!
Penny, I just wanted to say that I always read your music posts on FF and I've discovered some great new things through that. I'm hopeless at music but I love the way that you don't make me feel like I'm an idiot (which is exactly your point!). Though I'd still feel too musically dim to comment! Emily x
ReplyDeleteI love this post. I am a girl who is very seriously into her music. I am such a nerd I have 'gig' rules. Maybe I alienate people but when I love something my reaction is 'OMG YOU HAVE TO HEAR THIS SONG WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO IT RIGHT NOW TEN TIMES IN A ROW' i dont think people like that :/
ReplyDeleteThe i usually find out every little thing i can about the band, where they are from, ages, influences etc. I am a music geek.
I don't know why girls appear to be more passive, but I do think we over look men. The amount of smart musically interested looking men who have tried to pull me at a club and I go something like'We cant go snog, spiritualized is playing' and they look all dumb founded and don't know who they are despite probably wearing a spiritualized tshirt they've picked up from Newlook or Primark.
Maybe that makes me a snob... I dunno. But I love this post.